Supplier Research (no 3D printing)

Question

Supplier Research (no 3D printing)

maltfield opened this issue 3 years ago · 22 comments

This issue will track my attempts to find a supplier to manufacturer the USB-A Magnetic Breakaway component.

This will happen in parallel as we continue with efforts on the ideal solution, which is a totally open-source, 3D-printable shell that can be built easily, low-tech, with COTS components.

#2

But we can't let perfect be the enemy of the good, and as I write this there's many non-techie journalists, sources, activists, etc that could benefit from having a pre-assembled BusKill cable available for purchase. To fast-track that end-goal, I'll try to find a supplier who can make this component for us -- or supply us with the components sufficient for us to make it ourselves with non-trivial manufacturing required on our end.

Answer 1 · 2021-05-18T17:47:58.000Z

I've only ever found one supplier of a USB-A magnetic breakway: Griffin Technology. This is what I used to build my original BusKill cable, and--well--they totally sold-out on Amazon after I linked-to them in my original article describing how to build a BusKill cable:

https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2020/01/02/buskill-laptop-kill-cord-dead-man-switch/

3 weeks ago I contacted Griffin's Sales Manager for Retail & Distribution in Europe (triccardi at incipio.com), and he informed me that they EOL'd their magnetic breakaway adapters--both in USB-C and USB-A. I asked what would be required to jumpstart production, but I got no response.

Answer 2 · 2021-05-18T17:51:39.000Z

I tried last week to signup for an alibaba account, but I kept getting this error

The mobile number or email address is blacklisted

It wasn't at all clear if the issue was my email address or phone number. I tried several. Eventually I got it to work with an old gmail account that I fortunately still have access to.

After I logged-in I tried to change to my real email address again, but it wouldn't work. I opened a support chat and quickly was told that they ban any email addresses with alibaba in their name. Well, that breaks my email address naming convention, but I found that using babaali worked fine 🤷

Answer 3 · 2021-05-18T17:54:07.000Z

I found several vendors of interest. For this first round, I decided to contact three vendors that all manufacture exactly what we need, but with USB-C

Shenzhen Bvanki Technology Co., Ltd. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2020-Non-magnetic-to-Magnetic-Adapter_62510448064.html
Shenzhen EONLINE Industrial Co., Ltd. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Eonline-3A-Type-C-Adapter-Magnetic_1600096650403.html?spm=a2700.8267363.selected.1.54b93e5fI1rRxA
Sichuan Mandick Import And Export Trade Co., Ltd. https://mandick.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.wholesale.cordpanyb.2.92f23cf8bBQCTf

Hi,

Is it possible for you to make a Magnetic Breakaway for USB type A (standard USB)?

 * <link to their product>

The item above is similar to what I'd need, except I want the male end to be a USB-A male end and the female end to be a USB-A female end.

Please let me know if you have this item available in USB type-A (standard USB, not USB-C) only.


Thank you,
Michael

Answer 4 · 2021-05-19T21:58:17.000Z

All 3x suppliers said they don't make usb magnetic breakaways for USB-A.

I followed-up with a request to make a customized order, but I think these vendors all specialize in accessories for mobile phones, which is the market for these USB-C adapters and they don't do USB-A.

Answer 5 · 2021-05-19T22:04:52.000Z

I messaged another 8 vendors, all appeared from the first page when searching for "usb pogo pin magnetic pcb" on alibaba

Shenzhen QH Industrial Co., Ltd. https://mold-parts.en.alibaba.com/product/1600237806652-826886905/Professional_Magnetic_USB_A_to_micro_USA_Cable_Connector_Male_Female_Pogo_Pin_Connector.html
Shenzhen Like Hardware Electronics Co., Ltd. https://shenzhenlk.en.alibaba.com/product/62074920029-811716276/4_Pin_Magnetic_Connector_4_Pin_Pogo_Pin_To_Usb_Cable_PCB_4Pin_Connector_Male_Female_Connector_Smartwatch.html
Hyte Technology Limited https://hytepro.en.alibaba.com/product/62327772156-812944918/4_pogo_pin_data_magnetic_pcb_connector_with_female_and_male.html
Hytepro Technologies Limited https://hyte.en.alibaba.com/product/1600089874345-805606376/Hytepro_positive_4pin_magnetic_charger_cable_connector_dc_pcb_adapter.html
Shenzhen QH Industrial Co., Ltd. https://mold-parts.en.alibaba.com/product/1600214253589-812290259/High_Quality_Pcb_Pogo_Pin_Usb_Male_Dc_4_pin_Magnetic_Charging_Cable_Automotive_Electrical_Connector.html
Dongguan Bofan Technology Co., Ltd. https://dgbofan.en.alibaba.com/product/60825989769-0/4_Pogo_Pin_Magnetic_Usb_Waterproof_3_0_Port_Connector_Micro_Usb_Waterproof.html
Dongguan Cfe Electronic Co., Ltd. https://cfconn.en.alibaba.com/product/60783675303-804434158/White_4pin_Magnetic_Pogo_Pin_Connector_Adapter_4p.html
Dongguan Access Star Electronic Co., Ltd. https://access-star.en.alibaba.com/product/60677449119-812371672/Braided_Magnet_Android_Magnetic_Charging_USB_Cable_POGO_cable.html

Two from this round were similar to yesterdays, but this time I'm also messaging manufacturers that dump out to 4-pins and asking if they can add a female USB-A receptacle on it or both that + male on the other end, where needed. See photos.

Answer 6 · 2021-05-22T16:28:23.000Z

One of the vendors above (Una Ou from Shenzhen QH Industrial Co., Ltd) understood my inquery and provided a couple images of a possible solution. It's not an adapter like the prototype, but I think this cable will meet our requirements

Other vendors said they could customize a cable to make something like this, but their MOQs are 1000. I'm hoping to do a first-order of 50-500.

Answer 7 · 2021-05-25T22:00:47.000Z

Shenzhen QH Industrial Co., Ltd sent their catalog.

https://github.com/BusKill/usb-a-magnetic-breakaway/blob/master/supplier/shenzen_qh_industrial_co/productCatalogue_2020_rev5.pdf

And a .stl file for our customized cable as requested.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/BusKill/usb-a-magnetic-breakaway/master/supplier/shenzen_qh_industrial_co/2021-05-24/una1.stl

I responded saying that the cable looks OK but the length is way off. And asking what the MOQ would be.

Answer 8 · 2021-05-26T20:08:26.000Z

QH fixed the .stl file's cable length and also the double-male-end so it's actually a proper extension cable. Updated .stl is here:

https://github.com/BusKill/usb-a-magnetic-breakaway/blob/master/supplier/shenzen_qh_industrial_co/2021-05-26/4Pin_2.54mmPH_runway_male_female_magnetic_connector_with_USB-Female_adapter.stp

Raster gimp .xcf files are here:

https://github.com/BusKill/usb-a-magnetic-breakaway/tree/master/digitalAssets/logo/2020_raster

And I followed-up with a few more questions

Great, thanks. A few more questions:

What exactly is the max current that this cable will be rated for? The quote just says "900 mA - 2A", but I want to make sure we have some specific value that it's rated for. What are our options?

I see that the receptacle is blue in color, which suggests that it's USB 3.0? Can you please confirm exactly what the data transfer speed through this USB cable would be?

USB-A is polarized. Is the magnetic disconnect polarized? It's important that the connection between the cable cannot be connected backwards. If that's currently not the case, then the design should be modified to ensure that the magnetic/pogo interface can only be plugged-in in one orientation.

I'd love to add our logo to the mold, is this possible? If so, we'll modify the .stl and send it back to you with our the logo engraved on the overmold. Please let us know if there are any constraints in the size/placement of the logo that we should be aware of.

Answer 9 · 2021-05-26T20:15:04.000Z

Per our conversation @goldfishlaser will try to convert the logo to an svg with inkscape and then teach me how to engrave it onto the overmold in the .stl using freecad.

Answer 10 · 2021-06-03T18:07:22.000Z

I was finally able to pocket the logo into the cable overmold!!

https://github.com/BusKill/usb-a-magnetic-breakaway/blob/master/digitalAssets/cad/cable/buskill_usba_magnetic_breakaway_cable_4d.FCStd

This commit has the freecad file with buskill logo "carved" into the overmold of the custom adapter housing the USB-A female receptacle.

I think the reason freecad kept fighting me was because of the way it handles imported .stp files or something. Anyway, I discovered the following process permitted me to pocket the logo into the overmold:

Import the logo in svg format
Convert the logo from a draft to a sketch (Draft Workbench -> Convert bidirectionally between draft & sketch objectt) -- Do not combine all of the individual letters into one sketch, else you'll be unable to pocket it because the sketch's bodies are dijointed
Create a new body at the root of the freecad file outside the .stp tree (yellow staircase/step icon)
Click & drag the overmold to this new body
Click & drag all the sketches of the logo's letters into the same body as the overmold
Ctrl+click to slect all of the logo's letters. Click the "Data" tab, expand the "Position" field, and click +/- on the axis until the logo is position above the overmold (it doesn't matter how close it is, just fiddle with the two coordinates so the letters are centered atop the overmold.
Double-click the body to activate it.
One-by-one, click the sketches and choose Part Design -> Pocket. Figure out the right mm so it just carves into the surface without going through it. Do this again for each letter.

Answer 11 · 2021-06-10T16:35:57.000Z

I asked Shenzhen QH Industrial Co., Ltd if the size of the female connector was reasonable. She contacted the tools team and came back with this. It's larger, and seems much more practical

https://github.com/BusKill/usb-a-magnetic-breakaway/blob/9cba65f5c64c256c2ebaba18489f21f92dc5df21/supplier/shenzen_qh_industrial_co/2021-06-10/4Pin_2.54mmPH_runway_male_female_magnetic_connector_with_USB-Female_adapter_20210609.stp

Answer 12 · 2021-06-17T19:06:04.000Z

I'm setting-aside the USB-A design for now since it's a higher barrier-of-entry, and we have most of the info needed to figure out how to achieve it.

The lowest barrier-of-entry is to just got USB-C, which might be the only practical option to achieve before I want to launch the crowdfunding campaign (if we get funded, then we'll have $ that could help to proceed with manufacturing the USB-A cable.)

To start, I wanted to find a complete list of manufacturers on alibaba of USB-C magnetic breakaways and some other min requirements.

So I searched for usb magnetic on alibaba and limited my query to only items with

a. USB Type: TYPE-C
b. Product Type: Ready to Ship
c. Product Certification: FCC
d. Product Certificatio CE
e. Product Certification ROHS

And I got the following list of 19 vendors, sorted alphabetically by URL (which I can further refine in subsequent research)

https://atsound.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen Auto Intelligence Technology Co., Ltd.
https://chargingcable.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen Feixin Intelligent Co., Ltd.
https://eonline.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen EONLINE Industrial Co., Ltd.
https://faman2.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen Da Yuan Sheng Electronic Technology Co., Ltd.
https://feixinsmart.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen Feixin Intelligence Co., Ltd.
https://focusestech.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen Focuses Electronics Co., Ltd.
https://gzkallin.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Guangzhou Bewin Electronic Co., Ltd.
https://jmto.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Guangdong JiuMuTong Industry Co., Ltd.
https://logee.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen Aovlex-Link Technology Co., Ltd.
https://newcase.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Guangzhou Veaqee Electronic Co., Ltd.
https://parbaytec.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Foshan Parbay Technology Co., Ltd.
https://szrewin.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen Rewin Electronic Co., Ltd.
https://sztyhtech.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen Tongyinhai Precision Electronics Co., Ltd.
https://topkofficial.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Dongguan Chenxun Electronics Co., Ltd.
https://usams.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen Usams Trading Co., Ltd.
https://usamsoriginal.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen Youshengshi Technology Co., Ltd.
https://vothoon.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen Cooltech Electronics Technology Co., Ltd.
https://xxd-cable.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Shenzhen Xin Xin Da Communication Technology Co., Ltd.
https://yfegroup.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html Suzhou Yourfriend Electronic Co., Ltd.

I reiterated the 5 pages and found only one vendor that had both CE & FCC certifications:

https://mymiqi.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-803681895/Cable.html?spm=a2700.shop_cp.88.60

Edit: Shit, I just realized that all of these COTS items are double-male-end. So for it to work for our purposes, we'd have to add-in a female-female adapter

Fun fact: searching for "usb female female" on alibaba makes it recommend the "sex dolls" category.

Answer 13 · 2021-06-21T20:26:20.000Z

Of the list of alibaba vendors on the previous post, there are some providing a male-female USB-C magnetic breakaway adapter that wouldn't require a Frankenstein conglomeration including the female-female adapter.

Answer 14 · 2021-06-22T18:54:27.000Z

Yesterday I contacted the above 3x vendors on alibaba. The last two seem like small-time players, but the first one sent me a whole catalog page of their various USB magnetic adapters

I asked eonline what is their adapter with the most powerful magnets (ignorantly, I'd expect the one with the most pins and a right-angle to be the best here, but that would be their most expensive one at $21/ea). I'll probably buy a few samples based on what they say.

I asked the other two vendors if they had any similar products. I may also buy samples from them.

Answer 15 · 2021-06-28T20:52:58.000Z

I'm still struggling to get the payment link from EONLINE.

Meanwhile, I should probably find the USB-C (male) to USB-A (female) 1m "extension cable" whoose male-end would plug into the above USB-C magnetic breakaway adapter and whose female receptacle would take-in the USB-A thumb drive.

I searched for options of 1m cables, and I found only a couple. I think it makes more sense to search for all the vendors that sell the cables and just ask if they can make it in 1m lengths. For this, I searched for "usb otg cable" and selected the "USB Type: TYPE-C" option and only "Seller Type: Assessed Supplier" and "Product Type: Ready to Ship". I sorted & uniqd the results, and here's the complete list:

Answer 16 · 2021-06-29T16:49:59.000Z

EONLINE (extremely frustratingly) still won't prepare the link for payment. I sent a long text asking for them to send it again.

Hi Minnie, do you have the payment link prepared for the sample per our conversation last week?

We were very impressed with your catalog of USB-C magnetic breakaways cables, and we're very interested in sourcing them from you for use in our product.

Our company is planning to launch a new product that received great press in many major tech magazines around the world, and garnered significant international interest. Based on our first round of sales, we expect to sell about 100 items per month. The initial order will likely be 100-500.

While Alt Shift International greatly looks forward to establishing a long-term business relationship with EONLINE, it is of course a prerequisite that we have an opportunity to inspect the quality and variety of your USB-C magnetic breakaway cables to see which will work best for our product.

Please let me know when we can expect to be able to order a sample of the devices discussed last week.

Thank you,

Michael Altfield, Founder Alt Shift International OÜ
PGP Fingerprint: 0465 E42F 7120 6785 E972 644C FE1B 8449 4E64 0D41
Estonia Personal Identification Code: 38908030390

Alt Shift International OÜ
https://altshift.in

They responded with a terse message

Good morning

How the hell do I respond to that? It feels like I'm talking to a bot, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Very sad. I'll give them a few more days, I guess..

Meanwhile, the one other seller is Shenzhen Tongyinhai Precision Electronics Co., Ltd.. They gave me a sample offer of their one USB-C magnetic breakaway adapter for $3/pc w/ $30 shipping via DHL, 5-7 days arrival.

On a different note the following suppliers said they could make a USB-C male -> USB-A female OTG cable in 1 meter lengths:

Vendor	MOQ	Price/Ea	Comment
Shenzhen Sanguan Siyuan Technology Co., Ltd.	300	1.58	$32 sample
Shenzhen Sunning Tension Industrial Co., Ltd.	?	0.84USD	Free sample. + $23.8 shipping
Guangzhou Bewin Electronic Co., Ltd.	100	US$1.75	$36.5 for sample
Changzhou Wistar Electronics Co., Ltd.	500	?	$30 sample
Shenzhen Guobuy Business Limited Company	?	0.65
Shenzhen Aovlex-Link Technology Co., Ltd.	500	0.97 USD
Shenzhen Haiyijin Technology Co., Ltd.	500	3
Dongguan Dasheng Electronic Co., Ltd.	1000	?
Shenzhen Magelei Electronic And Technology Co., Ltd.	500	$0.413 w/ packaging	No sample possible
Shenzhen Oudakx Electronics Co., Ltd.	200	?	Sample is $2.50 + $19.50 shipping
Shenzhen Noblefull Technology Co., Ltd.	none!	$1.38/ea + $23.71 shippping
Foshan Cantell Electronic Co., Ltd.	500	1.29U	No sample
Dongguan Xunguang Electronics Co., Ltd.	500 strict	?
Dongguan Bofan Technology Co., Ltd.	100	2.5 usd
Guangdong 4successful Technology Co., Ltd.	1,500	?
Shenzhen Bloom Technology Co., Ltd.	500 (100)	1.9 (2.1)
Pogo Technology International Limited	200	1.3

Answer 17 · 2021-10-06T19:59:24.000Z

Update: I paid Shenzhen QH Industrial Co to begin making the first sample batch on 2021-08-23. They're a bit behind schedule, but said they'd mail me the first samples by Oct 10.

And they sent me a picture of the mold, which looks beautiful :)

Answer 18 · 2021-11-14T22:22:34.000Z

Shenzhen QH Industrial Co informed me that the first-sample-run of the custom BusKill magnetic breakaways had some atheistic defects, and they "still need to improve the mold for good tolerance and aesthestic quality."

Answer 19 · 2022-07-29T18:21:45.000Z

We were able to find all the suppliers we need and are now selling the manufactured injection-mold USB-A BusKill cables directly on our website and through Crowd Supply

https://buskill.in/buy

Answer 20 · 2023-05-02T20:02:21.000Z

Melanie recently cut open one of these manufactured BusKill cables.

Unfortunately, until #2 gives us a functional 3D-printable prototype, we cannot disassemble the currently designed BusKill cable without irreparably? breaking it.

@goldfishlaser can you please post the photos of the cut-open BusKill cable here, so the community can see what it actually is supposed to look like on the inside?

Answer 21 · 2023-05-05T01:06:16.000Z

@maltfield photos attached:

Answer 22 · 2023-05-06T16:02:32.000Z

@maltfield Additional photos

Cord

No shielding nor drain wire.

Other connectors insides

Direct connection of four wires to four pogos as in the other side. Black Green White Red. The wires were neatly connected it was me trying ot get the case off that messed them up.

(Note that my pictures suck because I live in darkness and my hands are always shaky and my camera software doesn't seem to be very helpful with that)