[Question] Addition of Backgrounds and further items
Opened this issue · 20 comments
Hey, you got a nice project here!
I am considering to use this system to host a small campaign. Fortunately you have already included several spells and items.
Nevertheless backgrounds and some spells are missing.
I found this Character generator for Troika!, which (besides generating characters) provides the JSON Database (they also have a Github) behind it, including over 450 backgrounds including items, spells and skills.
I am currently thinking about refactoring this database into a Compendium.
Do you think a PR of this compendium would fit to this project or would there be some legal concerns?
Hey @Daenges, glad to hear you are enjoying the system. Adding the core backgrounds as a compendium is on my to do list, but life has been busy...
I too have seen the character generator you mentioned, but this section makes it clear that these backgrounds aren't neccesarily available under Creative Commons or something:
All the creatives who contributed their backgrounds to this generator. You’re all amazing!
As such, it would be a bit unethical to include any of that content without getting the permission of the individual authors first, in the same way that Technical Grimoire presumably did.
Now, they do show the whole JSON database. So technically you could write a macro that parses that file, and creates a compendium out of it. And we could include that macro as part of the system. Something like that would be acceptable as far as I know.
So a full integration would create some difficulties, but a macro and basically api call would be okay?
Then I consider cloning their repository and host an own verson of their json to not being dependent on their website operating.
And then creating random Actors per macro execution.
The fact that they did not adhere to some kind of scheme while adding items and posessions creates the challenge to convert 5+ different formats (I only tested it for spells, which are a subtype of skill, so there will be way more.) somehow to items. Doing this on the fly is pretty hard, which is the reason why I want to make a compendium directly.
On top of that neither skills nor posessions have a description, only weapons have their attack damage.
This results in a big amount of items only being placeholders with a name, if they have not already been included into existing compendia.
Correct, to do full integration, we'd have to get the individual permission of each of the original content creators. But Technical Grimoire's tool is available for personal use, so we can write our own macro that parses and inserts it into a Foundry world, that should be no issue. It's no different than if someone downloaded the JSON file, then hand typed each entry into their world, just more practical.
Cloning the JSON file and hosting it ourselves though would be problematic. I think at very least we'd need to ask Technical Grimoire for their permission first. Generally you can't just take content off someone else's website and post it to yours unless the website has a license or something similar that grants the permission explicitly. And I don't see anything like that on their site at a glance.
So likely the best way to go about it would be to either make a call to directly load the JSON file from their website, or prompt a user to copy-paste the JSON into a form in Foundry, where the macro would then parse it.
One other thing this reminds me, I should add a field to the character sheets where things like attribution can be entered. Because for something like this, ideally we'd want to match what Technical Grimoire has done by noting that a given background/item comes from from what source, and whoever the author is, and also have the link to the project, if relevant.
Well, this leaves us to the problem that the database is a small mess. I could either try to clean it up and make a PR in his repo or I need to find some magic regex which somehow evaluates this data to a compendium.
(?!Spell|Child)\b(\d|[\w]+.*) (Regex101) - According to my tests this seems to catch most stuff, with the addition of some fine tuning in JS spells can be imported with it.
So... some time has passed and I did some work.
First I had a nice chat with David (the owner of the DB), who is very supportive about this project. (And even willing to help.)
Unfortunately he could not resolve the copyright issue, because, as already mentioned, this belongs to the original artists. Nevertheless he is pretty sure that plenty artists would grand us their permission, given we ask politely.
Therefore, I did some research... I extracted all source links and pulled some contact info from the depths of the Internet:
Borked links or no contact info
- http://ttrpg.link/VampNuggula // broken
- http://www.strivingandgain.com/ // broken website but archive.org has some stuff
- https://acontinentofbanalities.blogspot.com/2019/04/the-last-days-of-kranium-kastle.html // no contact info
- https://three-eyed-yew.itch.io/troika-book // no contact info
Source and contact info
- http://sorcerersskull.blogspot.com/2016/11/baroque-space-troika-style.html : theinscrutabledr3@gmail.com ✔️
- https://antlerrr.blogspot.com/2017/05/acid-death-fantasy-weird-desert.html https://lukegearing.blot.im/weird-war https://lukegearing.blot.im/weird-war-mission-generation https://antlerrr.blogspot.com/2019/10/krx-enslaved-by-insect-overlords-troika.html : lukegearing.games@gmail.com ✔️
- https://axesorcs.itch.io/axes-orcs-compendium-volume-two-science-fantasy-potpourri-backgrounds https://axesorcs.itch.io/axesorcs-troika-tarot-backgrounds https://axesorcs.itch.io/sph0rb : axes.and.orcs@gmail.com
- https://codyfaulk.itch.io/murkes-peerage : cody.faulk@gmail.com
- https://jamessral.itch.io/reef-runners : jamessral@proton.me
- https://metaparadox.itch.io/starry-messenger-a-troika-background : https://www.oliviamontoya.com/index.php/contact/ metaparadox11 AT gmail DOT com ✔️
- https://silverhooves.itch.io/ornithologists-journal : andreashellman0046@gmail.com
- http://whatwouldconando.blogspot.com/2017/11/background-proxy-child.html https://melsonian-arts-council.itch.io/troika-numinous-edition https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/melsonia/academies-of-the-arcane : info@melsonia.com ✔️
- https://grislyeye.itch.io/wargod : https://www.reddit.com/user/royalsocietyofmagic/
- https://another-d20.itch.io/vier : https://twitter.com/Thoobn/
- https://benkrosenbloom.itch.io/ : https://twitter.com/BENZORD
- https://beej.itch.io/golem-piloting-tarsier : https://twitter.com/bjrecio
- https://blog.d4caltrops.com/2019/07/troika-background-for-gorgon-trail.html : Comment under latest post?
- https://diogo-does-rpgs.itch.io/beyond-man https://diogo-does-rpgs.itch.io/pax-reptiliana : https://twitter.com/DiogoNoGood
- https://emanoelmelo.itch.io/ : https://twitter.com/emanoelmelo
- https://erinking.itch.io/dungeon-dragon https://erinking.itch.io/icy-city-troika : https://twitter.com/aaronmfking
- https://gayhalforc.itch.io/ : https://twitter.com/gayhalforc
- https://github.com/kk49/troika_content
- https://glaucus.itch.io/tarot-sized-troika-backgrounds https://glaucus.itch.io/ : https://twitter.com/wereoctopus
- https://halforc.itch.io/thousand-pound-canvas : https://twitter.com/half_blark
- https://ian-mcdougall.itch.io/crisis-on-christmas https://ian-mcdougall.itch.io/unfortunate-souls : https://twitter.com/iemcdougall
- https://kpetker.itch.io/ : https://twitter.com/KevinPetker
- https://mister-erwin.itch.io/ : https://twitter.com/john_errwin
- https://ordinal-m.itch.io/office-printer : https://daisychase.net/about.html
- https://s-jared.itch.io/prismot-a-troikawave-zine : https://generallyunpleasant.wordpress.com/contact/
- https://salsberyr.itch.io/ : https://twitter.com/rollinsals
- https://signalstation.itch.io/ : https://raggedfeathers.com/@signalstation
- https://uncannyspheres.blogspot.com/ : https://twitter.com/IanYusem
- https://watcherdm.itch.io/drawn-from-the-margins https://watcherdm.itch.io/murder-at-the-motel-zotel : https://twitter.com/watcherdm1
- https://www.technicalgrimoire.com/bones-deep https://www.technicalgrimoire.com/bridgetown : Owner DB (David)
- https://xethexene.itch.io/ : https://twitter.com/xethexene
Additional Twitter Links
If you are fine with it, I would start reaching out to people....
Sorry, life has become complicated recently, I may not have much time to work on this for a bit. But feel free to reach out to the authors for their permission to include the content in the system. We can build a compendium for any of the authors that agree.
Oh.. Apparently there was a jam. This is a Goldmine for new Backgrounds. :o
https://itch.io/jam/troika-backgrounds-jam
@TheLastScrub I already got some response. All entries with ✔️ have granted their permission to use their assets under the condition of linking their socials and not commercializing this project. (even Melsonia themselves :o)
Melsonia also suggested to add the "Troika Compatibility Logo" to the README.
Expand images
Thanks! I had already reached out to the Melsonian Arts Council, but always good to know they haven't changed their mind haha.
Did they say to use that compatibility logo specifically? I thought this was the current compatibility logo (and is what I use for the pause icon in game):
Yeah, they mentioned, that somebody already asked.
Did they say to use that compatibility logo specifically? I thought this was the current compatibility logo (and is what I use for the pause icon in game):
Well, they attached it to their response. They suggested to use it, but I think they just wanted us to mention the compatibility in general, so the current logo should be fine. :)
@TheLastScrub do you have a Twitter account? I don't and therefore I am not very familiar with the platform. Could you reach out to some of the creators?
Hello @Daenges how are you?
Just want to let you know that, after some talks with @TheLastScrub, I am taking the ownership of the repo and becoming the main maintainer.
I am reading this and thinking for a possible solution for that. As this system is becoming an official Foundry VTT system for Troika (hope you like the news!), we have to think on a solution that does not break any copyright.
I will be creating some tickets to track some improvements I would like to do, especially how the backgrounds are handled by the system, making it possible to add new backgrounds and use them during the character creation.
What you did is amazing and I will try to check how we can do that.
Let's try to revive this!
Let me know if you are still interested in helping with that.
Hey @Cussa I am glad to hear the good news about this project. :)
Thank you for taking over! I recently hosted a session with this system and I am eager to provide some feedback. 👍
As you pointed out, the major problem with the backgrounds is the copyright.
At the moment I can think of two ways how to handle it:
- Embrace it.
- Work around it.
As you might have seen it is quite an effort to contact every single person and ask them for their permission. From a technical standpoint it is worth it, as this provides the opportunity to act independent from Technicalgrimore's database.
The alternative would be to somehow utilize the already existing database, but this also comes with its own itches. We would need to fetch all content on the client, as we are AFAIK not allowed to redistribute the content without previous consent of the creators. At least 4 (the ones with the check emoji in the list) have already provided their consent.
But even if we extract all content of those 4 creators from the database, we basically need to rework every entry, as the Database does not hold the data in a very computer friendly way. Much of it was clearly written by hand, which makes it very difficult to import the data in a structured way..
My first idea was to decide on a good JSON template and run every entry through ChatGPT and tell it to put all the data to its correct place.
An alternative would be to begin with just the backgrounds we already got permission for and later add a way for users to submit their backgrounds to this repo while simultaneously giving us their consent. If you advertise it correctly you might end up with a similar amount of backgrounds. On top of that it would be way easier.
Edit: If you like to, I can forward you the consents I got via E-Mail, so you have some prove if there should be some legal trouble.
Hello @Daenges!
I am quite happy to see that our ideas are aligned. Let me share some info about what I am thinking at this moment.
I already created a ticket for creating a new "actor type" for the backgrounds. This will allow us to have it a better way than is currently handled.
Melsonian and I are discussing the best approach to bring community content to Foundry, but that will happen. Most probably, instead of chasing the current creators, we will try to invert it: we will create a process where anyone will be able to send their backgrounds (and more things... 😃 ) and having that incorporated in the Community Compedium.
With Melsonian helping spreading the word, it will be quite possible that we will get a lot of content filled fast! As this will follow a process to send (probably a website), the files will come already on the format we want. This will makes our lives easier.
Because Foundry needs more information (for example, the items are the real items included in the actor), having that on a page that handles that will be better than just trying to parse.
Of course that I will do the effort to get the ones that you got the approval already and see if maybe they could be the ones to start the process. Probably I will create a (crazy) regex that will parse the cases for us and try to create that.
I will leave this open while that is montion, but I am happy to say that this will happen... SOON! :)
I think it would be a good Idea to include the backgrounds I already got consent for, as there are a few. I just ran a quick search through the database:
| Creator | Entries in Database |
|---|---|
| Daniel Sell (Melsonian) | 64 |
| Luke Gearing | 16 |
| Sourcerer's Skull | 10 |
| Metaparadox Games | 1 |
So in total 91 Backgrounds only including those in the database. As I always requested consent for whole books, there might be even more we are actually allowed to use.
As you have not answered my question in the last post: Are you interested in the original cosent mails?
Yeap, forward that to me. Daniel will be easy, as I am working directly with him. The others will be quite important :)
Thanks for you effort!
Hello @Daenges , how are you?
Just want to give some update: after some time, I finally had some time to work on the things we had here for Troika. One of the current changes (that are now in the "test" phase) was exactly to have a dedicated Background object. That will give more control about the background itself.
There is new ticket (#21) to migrate the existing backgrounds from SRD to the new model. I will try to take this during the week, but no hard commitment for this timeframe.
Besides that, we started to have some Jams on itch.io for community content. So, this backgrounds will probably be included in the same module.
So, this is closer to start than before. Thanks for your patience and sorry that it took some time (I was working on the Swyvers system... 😅 )
Hello @Daenges ! I hope you well!
I am pinging you as we started the movement! We have now the new background "actor type" and all the previous backgrounds were migrated to the new format.
I am checking with Melsonian and we will probably start a new jam for people to send their backgrounds.
My current idea is to create some kind of tool/form that people could fill and that would generate the required data that I need to create the background. I will probably work on this during the next weeks and I will keep you updated.