JohnEarnest/Decker

Duplicate selection using drag + modifier key

gingerbeardman opened this issue · 9 comments

gingerbeardman commented

It would be useful to be able to duplicate the selection.

HyperCard (and MacPaint, Photoshop, etc) achieved this by use of a modifier key when using certain tools (Select and Lasso for HyperCard).

The goal here is to make for a more optimised, quicker, frictionless drawing experience.

From #3

olus2000 commented

Is duplicating the selection in any way different from copying and pasting it?
I tried to look for an answer but all online documentation is similarly vague and online simulators of HyperCard don't support the modifier keys.

gingerbeardman commented

Good question... duplicating the selection via modifier key is quicker and easier:

Copy & Paste

  1. select
  2. copy shortcut key combo
  3. paste shortcut key combo
  4. move

Duplicate using modifier key

  1. select
  2. press modifier key
  3. move

Yes, it's only one step but there is so much extra cognitive overhead (thinking about keys, finding keys, pressing keys) doing the cut and paste method. Compared to just holding a modifier and moving the selection

You're moving the selection already, the modifier just says move it in a special way. Copy and Paste is going down a different road to get to the destination, valid but less efficient.

HyperCard uses modifier keys to do a bunch of cool stuff and many users rely on those to speed up authoring. The workflow in it was continuously fine-tuned and arrived at over many years.

The way I look at it: Decker has taken some of the best of HyperCard to get to where it is now, let's take more of the best of HyperCard to make Decker even better.

On the other hand, if the line has already been drawn that we won't take more influence from HyperCard then I'd like to know where and why that is.

I know Decker will never be a slavish clone of HyperCard, and that's cool.

Screen.shot.2022-11-06.at.17.35.32.mov
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olus2000 commented

Well, I see a "cultural" difference of sorts: you are accustomed with HyperCard's modifier key actions and they don't require cognitive overhead from you, and I am accustomed to Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V for quick duplication, and to me pressing those keys is a single action done almost mindlessly. I'm not sure how the keyboard shortcuts are set up on Mac software, but copy/paste were bound to the same shortcuts in almost all software I have ever used and everyone I know recognizes them.

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gingerbeardman commented

Sure, cut/copy/paste can be used already, no changes are needed. Go for it! Nothing to see here.

to me pressing those keys is a single action done almost mindlessly.

I'm not arguing, but copy and paste is multiple actions in any counting system.

So, I'm asking for an enhancement to allow HyperCard users to feel more at home.

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JohnEarnest commented

I've done a number of experiments with this functionality and variations on it, and any way I slice it, this change has extremely hairy edge-cases and interactions with the existing behavior of both the rectangle select and lasso tools, which are already the most complicated drawing tools.

I simply cannot justify the added complexity for a feature I suspect very few people would use, especially given that copying and pasting in the normal fashion is more flexible and universally understood.

gingerbeardman commented

No worries, John.

I disagree that "very few" people will use it (every designer uses this trick in pretty much every app, new and old), but thanks for trying.

gingerbeardman commented

@JohnEarnest

This popped up on my Twitter today:

Susan Kare using this method of duplication to great effect in MacPaint.

https://twitter.com/drewcoffman/status/1594770636752228359

The comments are eye-opening.

there’s an intuitive partition of objects here that allows for faster selection and duplication. makes the existing “Layer” workflow in PS feel sticky / cumbersome / anal-retentive… we’ve taken it for granted by now. these early interactions can offer so much. such a great clip

&

i was genuinely shocked at how lightning quick it was!

&

I’ve always duplicated selection that way in Photoshop. I could never imagine copy/pasting.

gingerbeardman commented

@JohnEarnest

Modern tools that support the "duplicate with drag + modifier" interaction:

  • Photoshop
  • MS Paint
  • Figma
  • Sketch
  • Miro
  • Affinity
  • PowerPoint
  • Word
  • Mac OS Finder
  • Windows Explorer
  • VS Code
  • Chrome! (textfields)

Probably easier to list apps that do not support it.

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gingerbeardman commented

If you're interested to read how lots of people use this feature in modern apps, the responses to this tweet of mine will perhaps be enlightening @JohnEarnest

https://twitter.com/gingerbeardman/status/1595076519180865537

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