Godot UI Component Library in Penpot 2.x - Progress Tracker
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After weeks of deliberation, experimentation, and reflection, I've decided not to use Figma to house my contributions to the Godot Design System. There are many reasons to favor Figma over Penpot for this massive project, but ultimately the spirit of FOSS is a core principal of both Godot and its community, and introducing a hard dependency on a closed source proprietary platform for the Godot Design System would be, in my view, a weak decision.
For anybody interested, Aaron Mahlke built a project to begin exploring what Godot in Figma would be like -- it includes a very cool proof-of-concept prototype!
There are indeed a select few noteworthy advantages for using Penpot over Figma, which include:
- Currently free for all contributors. (subject to change for org accounts in future)
- Ability for committed individuals to contribute directly to Penpot development
- Penpot is [to the best of my knowledge] effectively untested at scale. While this is a major liability, someone has to find the dragons. This process, I believe, could be a great boon for Penpot, and therefore FOSS at large.
Just to be very clear: Figma is currently a much more productive piece of design software than Penpot, and the comparatively massive familiarity that most professional designers have using Figma isn't trivial. I've swallowed the pill and accepted the hard road, with the experience to know what that means. If truly show-stopper issues arise (e.g. massive data loss, library corruption, etc), I might have to reassess this path.
I will be updating progress in this issue regularly. Ideally, I will earn the right to create and manage this as a Project in this repo, which would also be useful to help identify areas where other contributors can tackle specific todos. Alternatively, new "penpot" and "design system" labels could be created and used to help track issues. That said, I believe that a lightweight project management prioritization system could help with various things, like isolating design requirements that are blockers for issues or active PRs in the Godot Repo. Otherwise, we could simply use "high priority" and/or "blocker" labels to isolate these issues. However, some designers might not be as comfortable navigating Github as the usual Godot contributors, so I believe a project board could be useful.
Link to the Godot Design Penpot dashboard -- currently requires permissions to access.
Closing as not planned, as I will not be using Penpot for this project, based upon my assessment of their current direction.
@SimplyPhy Hi! Very interesting post! I would be curious to check the Godot Design Penpot dashboard. Do you know how I can request access? Thanks.
@philippedcote I believe you need to request access from Emi via chat.godotengine.org in the editor-design channel. Note that the Penpot files are currently inactive; I discontinued efforts on using Penpot for the component library. I currently have a private Figma Pro Team for GodotEngine, though I haven't shared it yet.
@SimplyPhy Please let me know if you are open to sharing your Figma files.
I understand your struggle concerning Penpot. I currently don't use it because I find it way too slow and it lacks many features like Components and Variants. Have you considered Sketch as well? Their file format is open, at least.
@philippedcote penpot has components, but not variants, at least not in a "proper" sense. Just noting.
Yeah I'm the r/Sketch_App mod; I would absolutely love to use Sketch for this. However, Sketch has its own issues, and I've watched them fail to address those issues for a very very long time.
I'm in an awkward position where Figma is by far the best tool to use today (fastest, most enjoyable to use, fewest workarounds/proxies, most likely to attract experienced contributors), but is by far the least friendly option for Godot given its closed file format and expensive gatekeeping access strategy. Sketch has been "almost good enough" for a very long time. Penpot is unproductive and unpleasant to use at scale, and is very risky to invest in, especially given my beliefs regarding their trajectory and development cadence.
Sketch will be releasing auto layout probably in Q4, maybe Q1 2025 (my personal estimate). "Maybe" they'll finally be good enough at that time, but any complex system built in Sketch will warrant a major refactoring when auto layout is released. This is one of the reasons why it feels so bad to begin a big project with it at the moment. That said, at least they're finally adding it (and hopefully some other important changes/additions).
I predict that Sketch will become a true competitor in late 2025-2026 relative to the expectations of designers today. I predict that Penpot will either completely change their approach prior to becoming competitive at all, or will optimistically become relevant in 2026-2027. I predict that Figma will continue to fundamentally change the design landscape, especially at the corporate level, and will be so far ahead and entrenched that only a completely new type of approach to designing, and a product that capitalizes on that, could hope to compete. That said, in a world increasingly controlled by massive conglomerates that eat up high performing front runners in every discipline, it will be especially difficult to both successfully compete and resist acquisition for true innovators.
So yeah, tough decision whenever there's a compelling reason not to pick Figma.
Anyways, regarding sharing the Figma files -- I'm totally open to it for contributors. If you want to contribute, you'll have to pay for a pro account on the team.
@SimplyPhy Thanks for noting me about Penpot.
Oh nice that you are the mod for r/Sketch_App! :)
Ouch! Now I understand what everyone is saying about Figma's dark patterns. This is madness! I already pay a license for Figma! Maybe we could start with view-only and see if we can hack our way around. I'll DM you my Figma infos.
Otherwise, I think maybe, just maybe Sketch could be the best compromise. Could you tell which issues Sketch currently has that makes it unworthy?
Could you tell which issues Sketch currently has that makes it unworthy?
Sketch (as the app that lets you create/modify designs) is only available on macOS, which makes it a non-starter for a large portion of Godot contributors.
Sketch has been "almost good enough" for a very long time.
I remember when Sketch was heralded as the gold standard not so long ago. Reminds me of the whole QuarkXPpress versus InDesign debate around 20 years ago...
Sketch is only available on macOS, which makes it a non-starter for a large portion of Godot contributors.
Only editors need macOS. Sketch also have a web app for everyone else. Maybe that could be sufficient, since most designers already are on Mac.
What do you guys think?
Could you tell which issues Sketch currently has that makes it unworthy?
Not going to dig into the nitty gritty right this moment, but a big one for Godot is that you need to be a paying customer to participate in Workspaces -- i.e. collaborative environments (not including the web app ofc). Sketch allows you to be a "guest contributor" to Workspaces that you aren't a member of, but you still need to have a subscription or active Sketch license. Since most professional designers nowadays don't actively pay for Sketch, they would still have to pay upfront to contribute real work. Not a total dealbreaker, but for most it'll be the same financial issue as paying to participate in the Godot Figma team.
Only editors need macOS. Sketch also have a web app for everyone else. Maybe that could be sufficient, since most designers already are on Mac.
Honestly hard to say. Most professional designers use Mac in most regions that I'm aware of, but Godot's contributor-base might be sufficiently outside of what I consider to be "the norm" to make it a legitimate accessibility issue. That said, Godot doesn't really have much in the way of design contributors, so there's barely any sample to really measure from.
I remember when Sketch was heralded as the gold standard not so long ago.
Yeah, I lived through the transition, and was actively contributing to Sketch (insofar as they allowed) prior to being swept away into the world of Figma. I've always been rooting for Sketch, but they let Figma eat their lunch. I created a visual diff a couple years ago showing all the release notes from Figma and Sketch over the previous year, and it wasn't a favorable sight for Sketch.
Maybe pixso will be the next big thing, but I'm not holding my breath.
Maybe pixso will be the next big thing, but I'm not holding my breath.
Thanks for bringing that up. I was also checking out Lunacy but based on recent comments, it looks buggy as hell.
I remember when Sketch was heralded as the gold standard not so long ago. Reminds me of the whole QuarkXPpress versus InDesign debate around 20 years ago...
I lived through both. Started doing UI design and interactions using Photoshop, Illustrator and Flash in 1999. Switched to Sketch in 2014. It was a relief! Like @SimplyPhy said, they unfortunately let Figma eat their lunch, being over-confident. I resisted Figma at first but when tried it, it became the obvious choice, especially because it was much more stable than Sketch (along with multiplayer).
Not going to dig into the nitty gritty right this moment, but a big one for Godot is that you need to be a paying customer to participate in Workspaces -- i.e. collaborative environments (not including the web app ofc). Sketch allows you to be a "guest contributor" to Workspaces that you aren't a member of, but you still need to have a subscription or active Sketch license. Since most professional designers nowadays don't actively pay for Sketch, they would still have to pay upfront to contribute real work. Not a total dealbreaker, but for most it'll be the same financial issue as paying to participate in the Godot Figma team.
Honestly hard to say. Most professional designers use Mac in most regions that I'm aware of, but Godot's contributor-base might be sufficiently outside of what I consider to be "the norm" to make it a legitimate accessibility issue. That said, Godot doesn't really have much in the way of design contributors, so there's barely any sample to really measure from.
I understand their gripe about having to pay to use a software. I think the main problem concerning UI-UX design is that this craft is still too young to have options.
Now, I guess what we could evaluate is
- How much we can afford right now for a software license
- How much time would it save to use X or Y software
- Which format could easily migrate to Penpot down the road
Would that make sense?
How much we can afford right now for a software license
Insofar as I'm aware, that's a question for each individual prospective design contributor to make. I'm not aware of any design budget planned from The Godot Foundation, W4, or others.
How much time would it save to use X or Y software
Figma is faster than Sketch is faster than Penpot. Somewhere between Sketch v102 and v105, Sketch might be on par with Figma for design system development. I'll be actively assessing Sketch's competitiveness as their updates come in.
Which format could easily migrate to Penpot down the road
None. I'm not even confident that Penpot files will be able to be opened in Penpot in the future.
Somewhere between Sketch v102 and v105, Sketch might be on par with Figma for design system development.
Sketch could be a good compromise between costs and efficiency. Also, the web app can be used for free by developers on any OS. Let's wait a bit.
Otherwise, an Education License for Figma could solve our costs problem.
I'm curious: when you say Figma is faster than Sketch, you mean workflow-wise or performance-wise?
None. I'm not even confident that Penpot files will be able to be opened in Penpot in the future.
I tried Figma to Penpot export for a basic project last week and it worked partially. I guess you are right that it might be problematic down the line.