sporchia/alttp_vt_randomizer

Standard Start No Logic has too much logic in its standard start

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Console or Emulator: snes9x 1.60 (but this seems to affect rom generation in general)

Permalink: https://alttpr.com/en/h/7LyqwZLAM2


Description of problem:

I'm reasonably a fan of doing Standard Start No Logic seeds, with keysanity on (as it usually is in No Logic). What I'd expect from Standard Start No Logic is that after the secret passage, I might not have any kind of weapon, so I need to Escape Escape and explore the world in the rain to find one, come back to rescue Zelda when I'm ready, and possibly Escape Escape with Zelda again because I still don't have the small key.

To be clear, the above is what I expect. I play No Logic and I think that is a very reasonable way to play the game.

Two things make the current logic of Standard Start No Logic differ from what I expect:

  • I get 10 bombs out of nowhere when I pick up the uncle item. If the item is a big key, for example, I get the big key and 10 bombs simultaneously. 10 bombs is, of course, enough of a weapon to reach Zelda's cell.
  • The Hyrule Castle small key is always in Hyrule Castle or the secret passage, despite keysanity. So after rescuing Zelda, there is a high chance that I can finish the escape the intended way -- defeating the point of Standard Start No Logic unless you're deliberately trying not to rescue Zelda.

malmo did some experiments with seed generation to confirm the HC small key placement. It's not always placed somewhere that makes the escape sequence completable -- for example, sometimes it's in the sanctuary -- but it's completable more than half the time.

We are currently rewriting the entire engine of the randomizer, I will make sure that No Logic is actually properly no logic, I think standard still has some flags set for protection, but we will assure that v32 does not have these protections in place for no logic.