/DarkSoulsAndHollowKnight

A comparison between the games "Dark Souls" and "Hollow Knight"

Hollow Knight is similar to Dark Souls, and likely took inspiration from it.

The thesis of this document is that "Hollow Knight is similar to Dark Souls, and likely took inspiration from it." This is not a criticism of Hollow Knight. It is very common for games to take inspiration from other games, and it is healthy for the game development community to iterate on, explore, and refine genre tropes.

That said, I've noticed some people claim they see no similarities between the two games. When they ask for examples of similarities, it can be difficult to satisfy their request, because there are so many similarities between the two games that it is difficult to know where to start. This document can act as a catalogue of similarities between the two games for easy reference.

Preface 1: Were the creators of Hollow Knight aware of Dark Souls?

A common phenomenon in the arts and science is for the same ideas to be independently discovered by different people. For example, calculus was independently invented by Leibniz and Newton. In story telling, sometimes the zeitgeist of society pushes independent authors to come up with similar narratives. A priori, it's possible that Team Cherry, the creators of HK, independently developed HK without being aware of DS's existence. If this is what happened, then it would be incorrect to say that HK was inspired by DS.

Empirically, however, this was not the case. In an interview, the developers of Team Cherry mentioned that they had played DS before the development of HK, and specifically found mechanics in DS that they found interesting and that they consciously decided to add to HK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2DoyWCOyvg&t=21m45s

Interviewer 1: We've heard a ton of people, including all of us, mention: Did Dark Souls play any inspiration in the development or design of the game at all?

Team Cherry 1: I played some of the first one, and got to that one fat guy. [...] I've played Dark Souls 3 as well.

Team Cherry 2: I've played all of them, I should say, and liked them a lot; and I was one of those people -- and I'm sure a lot of you guys are the same -- played Demon Souls at that time when we were importing it from Hong Kong or wherever it was from [...] and it was this strange unknown game, and it was a game where you didn't know the edge of it and the boundaries of the system, and at the time that was refreshing. And I think a lot of people say Hollow Knight has that souls quality, and I think that's fair enough. But also, the souls games have those qualities from the older games. And it's much easier --I mentioned it on another podcast we did-- where it's almost like a [vodhead???] issue where you have a new generation of people who haven't played the earlier games like Zelda 2 [...] and it's much easier to say it's like Darksouls [...] as a modern game that emphasizes all the qualities.

[...]

Interviewer 2: I agree with that analysis. It's very interesting too, because I think we were all fairly convinced there was a lot of souls inspiration, and it could very well be due to like you said, we all just draw from that modern comparison quite a bit.

Team Cherry 2: There is one explicit one which, I'm hesitant to mention it, but I will mention it, but the souls system is, a large element of that, is the bloodborn health regain system, which is when you hit an enemy in bloodborn, you gain a bit of health [...] there's a parallel there with our soul system.

Interviewer 3: The only two parts that strikes me as souls-y is the way the world fits together, but I can see that that's like convergent evolution from other games that came earlier, but also the corpse mechanic of getting back to where your dead body is to get some currency back.

Team Cherry 1: Yeah, that's the other thing with that. 'Cause I remember thinking that idea was pretty interesting in Dark souls.

Preface 2: DS and HK vs NES-Era Games

There are many ways in which DS and HK are similar, but many of those similarities are uninteresting, because the commonalities they share might be shared by all video games -- such as having a health system, or having levels that involve platforming. Thus, we are primarily concerned with similarities between DS and HK but which are otherwise absent or rare in other videogames.

In particular, some people have claimed that DS was not inspired by HK, but just by "NES era gaming", and in particular the Zelda series from the NES era. Indeed, Team Cherry have made claims similar to this (see the quoted interview in the previous section). As such, when this document lists a similarity between DS and HK, it will also provide some remarks on how common that element appears in NES era games, and Zelda in particular.

Mechanical Similarities

Concept In Dark Souls In Hollow Knight In NES Era Games (especially Zelda)
Corpse Retrieval When your character dies, you lose some of your resources and leave behind a corpse. Retracing your steps to reach the corpse allows you to retrieve your lost resources. Dying "twice in a row" without retrieving your corpse causes the earlier corpse and its associated resources to be lost forever. When your character dies, you lose some of your resources and leave behind a corpse. Retracing your steps to reach the corpse allows you to retrieve your lost resources. Dying "twice in a row" without retrieving your corpse causes the earlier corpse and its associated resources to be lost forever. No known NES game that implements this mechanic. Zelda does not implement this mechanic.
Manual checkpoint system and unlimited lives Players must sit at a bonfire to manually set a checkpoint. There is no "do you wish to save?" prompt. Resting immediately replenishes your health, but also "resets the world" (causing enemies to respawn, among other things). Players have unlimited lives and can die as many times as they want, instantly respawning them at their last checkpoint, except for a few situations where that would be narratively inconvenient (e.g. Duke's Archive) Players must sit at a bench to manually set a checkpoint. There is no "do you wish to save?" prompt. Resting immediately replenishes your health, but also "resets the world" (causing enemies to respawn, among other things). Players have unlimited lives and can die as many times as they want, instantly respawning them at their last checkpoint, except for a few situations where that would be narratively inconvenient (e.g. Beast's Den) No known NES game that implements this mechanic. Zelda does not implement this mechanic.
Two major currencies ("major" in the sense of shown on the HUD), with one being significantly more readily available than the other Souls and Soft Humanity Geo and Essence No known NES game that implements this mechanic. Zelda does not implement this mechanic.
Blacksmiths require the "easy major currency", plus an additional third currency whose only purpose is for blacksmithing Souls and Titanite Geo and Pale Ore No known NES game that implements this mechanic. Zelda does not implement this mechanic.
Teleportation Mechanic introduced Mid-game Lordvessel Dreamgate Not terribly uncommon in NES Era games, the Airship from Final Fantasy might be comparable. Zelda has the Flute which serves a similar purpose.
A literal barrier that prevents further progress until a specific requirement is triggered Golden Fog Gate, blocked until you have found the Lordvessel Shade Gate, blocked until you have found the Shade Cloack TODO

Similarities in World Design, Character Design, Lore, Scenes and Set Pieces

Concept In Dark Souls In Hollow Knight In NES Era Games (especially Zelda)
Lore is generally obtuse. Strong reliance on environmental story telling (inferring what must have happened in an area by observing the non-interactable background decorations). Strong reliance on inferring lore by reading optional text (not via cutscenes that are pushed onto the player). Many players who beat the game will never learn the full lore. Many players who are interested in the lore will need to do external research (e.g. read wikis) and will not have inferred it just from the materials presented by the game. Implemented exactly as described, with many of the optional text being contained in item descriptions. Implemented exactly as described, with many of the optional text being on lore tablets, or "dream nail dialogue". Lore is generally mistaken to be obtuse, but in fact is simply underdeveloped (i.e. there is no deeper lore to uncover). Little to no environmental story telling (arguably, the low fidelity graphics of the NES did not support this method of story telling). The entire lore can often be understood simply by reading the instruction booklet included with the NES cartridge, sometimes combined with any intro text and epilogue text, which "cannot be missed" by a player who completes the game.
Inciting Incident The "Dark" spreads across the world. Coming into contact with the Dark tends to cause madness. Multiple kingdoms falls due to its citizens going mad. The "Infection" spreads across the world. Coming into contact with the infection tends to cause madness. Multiple kingdoms falls due to its citizens going mad. Not a common theme in NES era videogames (can someone find an example of a NES game that uses this?). Zelda does not use this theme. The incident in Zelda is a (sane) Ganon attacking Hyrule and kidnapping a princess.
A failed hero tries to stop the spread Artorias attempts to stop the Dark, but fails, and goes mad. The player character must eventually defeat Artorias, and finish the job he started. The Hollow Knight attempts to stop the Infection, but fails, and goes mad. The player character must eventually defeat The Hollow Knight, and finish the job he started. Some NES games have similar themes (Big Boss from Metal Gear, Joe from Bionic Commando, Edrick from Dragon Warrior). Not present in Zelda.
Selection process for finding "The Chosen One" The King houses countless undead in the Asylum, such that only a few can escape. Of those that do manage to escape, they are further filtered by being forced to fight several bosses. Only once almost every boss is defeated is Frampt persuaded that the player character is indeed the chosen one. The King houses countless "siblings" in the Abyss, such that only a few can escape. Of those that do manage to escape, they are further filtered by being forced to fight several bosses. Only once almost every boss is defeated is Hornet persuaded that the player character is indeed the chosen one. The generic "Chosen One" theme is present in many NES games (and in many narratives that predate the NES), but the specific selection method is rare (can anyone name any game that uses it?) Zelda does not use it: Link is chosen randomly by Impa, and not via a selection process where millions must try to prove their worth.
Lead Strong Female Fighter associated with the "hornet" Ciaran is the strongest female fighter in the narrative, and she stoically accepts that the player character must kill Artorias. Her key item is the Hornet ring. Hornet is the strongest female fighter in the narrative, and she stoically accepts that the player character must kill the Hollow Knight. It is very rare for any NES game to have a strong female character associated with the hornet (can anyone name any examples?) Zelda does not have any character, male or female, strong or weak, associated with the hornet.
A city that's cleanly divided into a "superficially well maintained, but upon closer inspection starting to fall apart" half and a "collapsing and also haunted by ghosts" half Anor Londo is the superficially well maintained half, New Londo is the collapsing and haunted half. City of Tears is the superficially well maintained, Soul Sanctum is the collapsing and haunted half. A city with this specific dichotomy is rare in NES era games (can anyone name an example?) Zelda does not have such a city.
Easily Skipable Optional sleeping Boss guarding something moderately valuable In Valley of Drakes, there is a sleeping undead dragon guarding a couple of unique items. You can easily walk by the dragon without waking it, or you can choose to fight if you think it's worth the reward. In Crystal Peaks, there is a sleeping guardian guarding a bench. You can easily walk by the guardian without waking it, or you can choose to fight if you think it's worth the reward. Easily skipable optional sleeping bosses are very rare in NES-Era games (can anyone name an example?) Zelda does not contain such a boss.
NPCs which must be found and/or rescued at specific points in the game, in order to allow them to be encountered again at other points in the game, with this process being repeated several times to create a "quest line" chain, although all such chains are optional and the game can readily be completed without completing any such quest lines Solaire, Laurentius, Big Hat Logan, Griggs, Lautrec, Siegmeye, Patches Cloth, Quirrel, Bretta, Tiso, Zote This is a very rare trope in NES era games (can anyone name any examples?) Dragon Warrior has princess Gwaelin whom you must rescue before you can encounter her in the throne room; while she is technically optional, it is almost impossible to find a key item without her help, so for all reasonable intents and purposes, her quest line is required; and her quest line does not iterate multiple times to form a chain. Zelda does not use this trope.
An NPC which presents you with an offer that ends up being a betrayal, with an option to re-encounter the same NPC later on and punish them for betraying you. Patches Millibelle This is a very rare trope in NES era games (can anyone name any examples?) Zelda does not use this trope.
An NPC to whom the Player Character must "confess" (and bribe) in order to undo a mistake made by the player Pardoner Oswald Confessor Jiji A very rare trope in NES Era games (can anyone name any examples?) Not used by Zelda.
End-Game Choice to Perpetuate or Break the Loop During the final boss fight, the player has the option to self-sacrifice, "linking" themselves to the fire, and thus perpetuating the cycle to buy a bit more time. However, this is a temporary solution, and it is implied another undead will have to come and repeat the process, defeating the player character and be faced with the same choice. Alternatively, the player may choose to permanently end the fire. The game presents this ending as ambiguous, as it's unclear if the new world that was ushered in will be better or worse than the status quo. During the final boss fight, the player has the option to self-sacrifice, becoming the new Hollow Knight, and thus perpetuating the cycle to buy a bit more time. However, this is a temporary solution, and it is implied another knight will have to come and repeat the process, defeating the player character and be faced with the same choice. Alternatively, the player may choose to permanently end the Radiance. The game presents this ending as ambiguous, as it's unclear if the new world that was ushered in will be better or worse than the status quo. Very rare in NES era games (can anyone name an example?) Most NES games have a single ending. Of the games that have multiple endings, one is usually unambiguously the "good" ending, and the others are the "bad" ending. Zelda does not use this trope, it has a single ending that is unambiguously good.
Hidden bonus post-game content provided by a one-of-a-kind talking mushroom Elizabeth is a talking mushroom who presents you with an optional end-game quest. While there are other sentient mushroom enemies, Elizabeth's design differs significantly from them, and she is the only talking mushroom, implying she is of a distinct species from them. There is no evidence of any other member of her species. She is somewhat hidden: It is very possible for a player to complete the game and never learn of her existence. Mr. Mushroom is a talking mushroom who presents you with an optional end-game quest. While there are other sentient mushroom enemies, Mr. Mushroom's design differs significantly from them, and he is the only talking mushroom, implying he is of a distinct species from them. There is no evidence of any other member of his species. He is somewhat hidden: It is very possible for a player to complete the game and never learn of his existence. Most NES Era games do not feature talking mushrooms who grant you quests. Super Mario Bros. is the most notable exception, although Toad is not very "hidden", and the quest he gives you is not optional, and Toad is not the sole member of his species. Zelda does not contain any talking mushrooms, let alone unique talking mushrooms that give you optional quests.
DLC NPC that seems stylistically very out of place, as if from a Vampire setting instead of the original setting Marvelous Chester Grimm Putting aside the concept of DLCs not existing for NES era games, very few NES games have vampiric-styled characters in them unless thematically appropriate (e.g. Castlevania). Zelda does not use this trope.
"Hollow" as a metaphor for losing sentience Mindless enemies are called "hollows" The "Hollow Knight" has lost control of itself There are mindless creatures in NES games (e.g. Zombies), but they are not referred to specifically as "hollow". No enemies are referred to as "hollow" in Zelda.