Comments, questions, feedback
harlab opened this issue · 82 comments
Do you have comments or questions on CM4Ext Nano? Feature proposal for future products?
Share your thoughts here
Will it be Open Hardware at some point?
@derwana our baseline is:
- WTFPL license for software
- Release pinouts or interface schematics for hardware
CM4Ext Nano versions
Hello,
Will be multiple versions available? or 3D printed case?
For instance I'm looking for something minimalistic, with only two usb C (on only data, on for data+power), the user switch, micro sd.
CM4Ext Nano versions
Hello,
Will be multiple versions available? or 3D printed case?
For instance I'm looking for something minimalistic, with only two usb C (on only data, on for data+power), the user switch, micro sd.
Hi
Beefier version at the same footprint is under development. We mined Unobtanium to implement USB3 but there should be a really good reason to go from type-A to type-C for USB3, because keyboards and most of flash drives still have type-A connectors. If you describe your use case, we will think of this.
CM4Ext Nano will be shipped without case, so we consider designing 3D printed one
CM4Ext Nano versions
Hello,
Will be multiple versions available? or 3D printed case?
For instance I'm looking for something minimalistic, with only two usb C (on only data, on for data+power), the user switch, micro sd.Hi
Beefier version at the same footprint is under development. We mined Unobtanium to implement USB3 but there should be a really good reason to go from type-A to type-C for USB3, because keyboards and most of flash drives still have type-A connectors. If you describe your use case, we will think of this.CM4Ext Nano will be shipped without case, so we consider designing 3D printed one
For the second version do you have a timeline? And a price for both? Thank you.
For the second version do you have a timeline? And a price for both? Thank you.
CM4Ext Nano - $29.90
For a second one we have a good progress, but not ready to announce any details yet.
Hi, really cool little board!
I wanted to mention that the WTFPL is rather problematic (see https://opensource.google/docs/thirdparty/licenses/#wtfpl-not-allowed) and it'd be much better to license under the MIT or BSD licenses.
Also for a hardware license, the CERN open hardware license is a good option: https://ohwr.org/project/cernohl/wikis/home
Hey @harlab , really cool board... There is a lot of users from https://github.com/OpenHD/Open.HD/ looking for something very similar as you did. We may need some more power to hook up a powerful wireless card at the USB but all the rest seems very good. Let us know once available for purchase! Congrats!
Hello
Really awesome board.
Like Felipe above me I want to use this board with the OpenHD project.
I'd like to suggest a version with an integrated DC/DC to have the possibility of powering it directly from a 2-6s Lipo battery and some usb2.0 solder pads without power limitation.
Best greetings
Sebastian
@harlab Hello, as far as I understand from the description, it is not possible to use both USB C and USB A for data in the same time. Is it right?
Hi, really cool little board!
I wanted to mention that the WTFPL is rather problematic (see https://opensource.google/docs/thirdparty/licenses/#wtfpl-not-allowed) and it'd be much better to license under the MIT or BSD licenses.
Also for a hardware license, the CERN open hardware license is a good option: https://ohwr.org/project/cernohl/wikis/home
Hi @ethanhs,
Thanks for your feedback. WTFPL license was mentioned with a grain of humor. We will consider using corresponding license, especially if contributing mainline
Hi @machadofelipe and @CopterGUI,
Mods and features you're asking too specific for general purpose CM4Ext Nano board, but you're welcome to discuss it here: #3
Hello, as far as I understand from the description, it is not possible to use both USB C and USB A for data in the same time. Is it right?
Hi @gabyavra
You're correct. CM4 has only one USB2.0 port that can be used as USB host or USB device. To have both of them we need USB hub on PCIe. This is under development now and we'd like to hear your usecase to meet your expectations.
Hello, as far as I understand from the description, it is not possible to use both USB C and USB A for data in the same time. Is it right?
Hi @gabyavra
You're correct. CM4 has only one USB2.0 port that can be used as USB host or USB device. To have both of them we need USB hub on PCIe. This is under development now and we'd like to hear your usecase to meet your expectations.
I want to use this as a portable WiFi audit device. Connect and power it using usb C and ssh via emulated Ethernet (usb C) and use an additional WiFi NIC on the USB A. At the moment though I can use the embedded WiFi card, the chipset is supported by tools such as air crack-ng. So I can still use it as it is, since I can use USB C as data.
hi. when and how can i buy this?
I want to use this as a portable WiFi audit device. Connect and power it using usb C and ssh via emulated Ethernet (usb C) and use an additional WiFi NIC on the USB A. At the moment though I can use the embedded WiFi card, the chipset is supported by tools such as air crack-ng. So I can still use it as it is, since I can use USB C as data
Nice use case and CM4Ext model to support this is on a drawing board. However, can't announce any dates at the moment.
I want to use this as a portable WiFi audit device. Connect and power it using usb C and ssh via emulated Ethernet (usb C) and use an additional WiFi NIC on the USB A. At the moment though I can use the embedded WiFi card, the chipset is supported by tools such as air crack-ng. So I can still use it as it is, since I can use USB C as data
Nice use case and CM4Ext model to support this is on a drawing board. However, can't announce any dates at the moment.
Can you show a sneak preview of it? 😁
hi. when and how can i buy this?
Hi @bdhwan, we're doing our best to release it at the end of February. Stores will be announced at product page and our Twitter
Can you show a sneak preview of it? 😁
USB-C device, 2xUSB3, SD card and optional mini PCIe
Super cool project I'm interested to make a USB multi gadget device with it.
I'm excited by the mini PCIe port but is it planned as a CMExt4_Nano feature too or does this concern the OpenHD version or another version only ?
I had in mind that it could be connected to the back of the main board between CM4 and CMExt4_Nano through a ribbon cable and be a separate daughter board for mini PCIe only but it is just an idea
Will it be open source? It'll be awesome if it could be!!
Hi @Azkali
Super cool project I'm interested to make a USB multi gadget device with it.
I'm excited by the mini PCIe port but is it planned as a CMExt4_Nano feature too or does this concern the OpenHD version or another version only ?
I had in mind that it could be connected to the back of the main board between CM4 and CMExt4_Nano through a ribbon cable and be a separate daughter board for mini PCIe only but it is just an idea
Thanks for your input.
Placing PCIe card between CM4 and baseboard is barely possible, because only 1.5mm thickness available when using 3.0mm stack height Hirose connectors. Instead, we prefer standard PCIe form-factors.
CM4Ext Nano design is complete and we're not going to make a big changes.
CM4Ext Nano OpenHD is a separate project from mentioned above and targeted to specific, but awesome application: low latency HD video transmission.
CM4Ext Nano with 2xUSB3.0 and PCIe support is one of our next projects and we'd like to hear your use cases to make sure it'd fit your needs.
Hi @rubencg195
Will it be open source? It'll be awesome if it could be!!
Currently we're going to use pretty much the same approach as RPF: open software and reduced interface schematics where applicable.
If you're thinking of your own open source hardware, let us know - we might contribute
This is almost exactly what I want to have! But I'm aiming for dual CSI connectors instead of having a CSI and DSI, or possibly dual CSI and a DSI. Beyond that it's wonderful!
Hi @harlab
My use case is a bit weird.
I intend to make a USB gadget device with the PiCM4 and CMExt4 with "swappable" HID's and peripherals that extends other devices.
So you could pass through any device attached to the Pi or most of them ( storage or HID's or even PCIe devices like a 4/5G module if even possible ) to another computer, tablet etc.. To extend the other device capabilities. ( Being able to stream video output to a second screen would be a must. )
I would need DSI, CSI, USB host + device ( through USB C would be better ), power fed to the Pi via a 5V battery, grove connector, USB 2/3.0 x1 ( or more ), PCIe, SDcard ( but optional ) in my project.
Thanks for your interest on this project ! I appreciate
@tmeers, thanks for your feedback. Can you share your application?
@harlab it's for a dual camera set up, having both a regular camera and the NoIR camera for day and night shots. Or even stereoscopic pictures. Working with a Pi 2B and a Zero for a single cam, and it's all well and good, but I would love dual, and be on this way more compact platform.
Outside of that I have a few other ideas for using the CM4 and something like this nano board would be perfect for those applications as is!
@harlab
Thanks for your answer I appreciate !
Yes I am aware that I can only use usb2.0 but it is good enough for now. But is it hardware related or software only ?
If it is the latter I'm sure someone will fix it someday 😉
If you have any plan to make such device or anything really that could help my project let me know, but thanks for your time and work on this promising board !
@harlab it's for a dual camera set up, having both a regular camera and the NoIR camera for day and night shots. Or even stereoscopic pictures. Working with a Pi 2B and a Zero for a single cam, and it's all well and good, but I would love dual, and be on this way more compact platform.
Outside of that I have a few other ideas for using the CM4 and something like this nano board would be perfect for those applications as is!
@tmeers Thanks again for feedback!
Yes I am aware that I can only use usb2.0 but it is good enough for now. But is it hardware related or software only ?
If you have any plan to make such device or anything really that could help my project let me know, but thanks for your time and work on this promising board !
@Azkali, USB2.0 is hardware related. While adding USB3.0 A/type C host is easy and straightforward, USB3.0 device mode is not trivial. Future boards will be announced here and on Twitter
any images with the 3D printed case?:)
@gabyavra not yet, currently we're working to put the board into production. But will share some pictures as soon as we design and print some cases
$30 for a mini adapter for the CM4? Sign me up. When can I get one? I'd love to design some cases for it. As well as figuring out how to put it in a retro gaming handheld.
Hi @Zach1812, boards are in production now and should be available for purchase in March. We are preparing specifications update and will release drawings, so anyone can design and 3D print their own cases.
Regarding retro gaming handheld - is there anything we can help with?
Honestly the biggest thing missing from the Raspberry Pi would be the addition of an ADC like the ADS1115. Just a small 4 channel 12 bit or 16 bit ADC for joysticks. Since you've already have the DSI MIPI and HDMI and the CM4 has Wifi and Bluetooth built in, I can't think of anything else at the moment I'd need.
- I see there are a lot of ADS1115 breakout boards around, could you tell why those won't fit your need? I.e. what's missing, wrong form-factor or could've been better
- Could you share a link to a most used joysticks?
- Is ADS1115 supported by retro gaming systems directly? I.e. maps as analog joystick?
Sorry. Yes, there are a lot of ADS1015/ADS1115 breakout boards that could work. A lot of them would indeed fit the form factor. The addition of it would only reduce the number of boards and additional pieces required to fit a "standard" (14+ digital buttons, 4 analog signals) retro game setup.
As for most used joysticks, most of the older used ones would be like the PSP-1000 or the Nintendo Switch Joystick
ADS1115 is not natively (as far as I know) supported by retro game systems (RetroPie, Lakka, Batocera, etc.). One would need to have a controller program running in the background checking on and pushing any changes in analog movement. All retro game systems (that I know of) do have the ability to read analog joysticks and utilize them in systems that allow for analog input. This is why you can use a PS3/PS4/XBOX controller with these systems. That doesn't negate the need to have the base operating system understand there is a change in voltage and post that change. Sadly I'm not the smartest person for this kind of inquiry however. Most of my analog usage for controllers has been passed through a Teensy to be read as a USB_HID, rather than a raw signal.
@Zach1812 Ok, I see... For example SparkFun Qwiic Joystick can do the job? And by the way, for production boards CM4Ext Nano has Qwiic connector instead of Grove
Good news, everyone.
- We put CM4Ext Nano into production and expect to have them ready mid-March to ship from Germany
- We announce CM4Ext Nano m.2. There is too much free board space left, so we're open for bells and whistles suggestions
harlab, sorry for the late reply. Yes that Joystick would be able to do the job. I'm not very familiar with Qwiic and would need to prototype some ways to make it work with the setup I have in mind. I can't wait for the Nano to be available! I already have a project under production ready to utilize it's small form factor.
Is the 2x csi connector a "small one" aka rpi zero or a "big one" aka rpi 3 ?
E.g. not the number of lanes, but the physical size of the connector.
@Consti10 connector size is the same as Raspberry Pi Zero. Please take a note that those are DSI and CSI, not 2xCSI
@Zach1812 Good to hear. Regarding joystick, right not I can't tell "one line in python" solution to make it appear as HID device and definitely tests are needed to check if latency is acceptable.
hello, when and where can we start ordering? Thank you
@gabyavra, as you can see on a front page, we’ve manufactured first batch of CM4Ext Nano. We are going to launch in EU and working on import, Declaration of Conformity and other formalities. We see interest from official Raspberry Pi distributors and prefer this model to let our customers purchase CM4Ext Nano along with CM4 and save on shipping.
WHEN CAN I BUY TWO?!?
Looking forward to purchasing some of these. Any idea when your distributors will be shipping?
We are making list of customers who willing to get CM4Ext Nano earlier than they can be put into store. Main reason for this is that first revision of the boards has audio output quality below expectations - you hear R2D2 speaking in your headphones when CPU gets some load. We don’t want these boards to mix up in retail stores with next (fixed) batches and willing to ship these boards OLNY to a customers who are fully aware of this issue and not going to use audio output in their project. With this, boards can be sent without retail store fees as “invoice - SEPA transfer - shipping”, no MOQ.
PM via Twitter with qty and your county to be added to the list
Wow! I can't believe I am just finding this now! I have been working on a cm4 based system for machine vision with reverse side IO so the pi can be cooled easily and it looks like this is the solution! How do I get on the waiting list?
Wow! I can't believe I am just finding this now! I have been working on a cm4 based system for machine vision with reverse side IO so the pi can be cooled easily and it looks like this is the solution! How do I get on the waiting list?
Hi, @bherbruck we start selling next Monday. DM on Twitter for details
Hey @harlab can you please upload hardware dimension information/documentation so that 3D printed case designs can be designed?
Hi Harlab,
Per your instructions, I contacted you via Twitter to get on the list for one of your early boards (with audio issues). This board is exactly what I'm looking for, and I'm ready for payment info.
Hi Harlab,
Is the project still going?. What would be the price for the production level board. I am interested for the early board too.
Thank you.
When will the board be publicly available?
Really nice project! Adding a LAN connector would be great + alternative 5v in connector.
Seeing the Camera mounted to this, it would be nice to have a microphone built in or a jack to plug one in. Any plans to add a mic in?
We are making list of customers who willing to get CM4Ext Nano earlier than they can be put into store. Main reason for this is that first revision of the boards has audio output quality below expectations - you hear R2D2 speaking in your headphones when CPU gets some load. We don’t want these boards to mix up in retail stores with next (fixed) batches and willing to ship these boards OLNY to a customers who are fully aware of this issue and not going to use audio output in their project. With this, boards can be sent without retail store fees as “invoice - SEPA transfer - shipping”, no MOQ. PM via Twitter with qty and your county to be added to the list
Hi I am a Mentor on a Robotic club, I'm interested on use this board for vision recognition on First robotic Competition. How can I buy one of those
I'm also interested in an "audio-issues" pre-production board, or a production ready board if you're planning to get there. Count me as another voice of support!
Hi,
I am interested in "audio-issues" boards, or production boards as well. How should I proceed with ordering?
Hello I am interested in ordering a board, how can I proceed with ordering as well?
We are working on a smart city project here in Tokyo and already using CM4 clusters,functional audio is not needed. Do you ship to Tokyo?
Can I get the first batch boards? I don't plan on using audio.
I also would like to get in on an early order. Not concerned with poor audio performance.
First, congratulations for such an outstanding product. I am curious about two features:
- Are there plans to include an M.2 connector to use a coral accelerator? Many people will use this device to make some kind of image processing, and having a coral accelerator could be really useful.
- Are there plans to include POE support? It would be supper handy to just to have one cable out of the camera. Not sure if it is possible due to power limitations, but that would be an incredible addition to an already incredible product.
Hi,
I'm interested in both the CM4Ext Nano early version and the CM4Ext Nano OpenHD .
So is it still possible to et an early version. I'm belgian so shipping should be no problem.
Best Regards,
Floris
Hi, I definitely want one of these and I have no plans for audio so…
Where will you ship from. Definitely best for me if you ship from EU country.
Good job on creting this!
Also interested in buying one from the first batch. Looking forward.
I would love the be included in this!
Hey, just thought I'd post here to show interest. Use case would be a in a portable handheld device, I'd like to make something to let me host a server on the local network and run commands to the server without needing my laptop.
Please count me in.
Dear HARLAB,
Would you be so kind to write at least one word of feedback for those requests and interests??
Why don't you react at all??
If you say that it is not worth to wait, no problem.
If you say you are working on the project but have time/chip/resource/etc. issues, still OK.
But not responding is not so nice
Thank you very much for your understanding
Best regards.
I also would be interested in getting one or more of these CM4 Nano boards!
Hi, I'm interested in an "audio issues only" board, along with the "CM4_LCD_LT070ME05000" display board. Thanks!
Hi, I'm interested in an "audio issues only" board, along with the "CM4_LCD_LT070ME05000" display board too. Thanks!
Also interested in buying one from the first batch. Looking forward to get one.
i'm also interested
I'd love to get ne of these too!
I’d like to order 5 of these.
Hi, I would like to also sign up if there are still some of them left :D. Thanks
Is this project still alive?
Does anyone have any news about this project? I didn't see anything in any of the comments confirming that even a single unit has made it into the hands of buyers, though a few boards seem to have been released to reviewers.
That said, if anyone did obtain either the audio-deficient version or its successor, and would be interested in placing it in a new home, please let me know what it would take to take it off your hands.
And harlab, if you're still out there somewhere and are interested in resuscitating this board, we have an awesome new project for which it alone - out of what seems like hundreds and hundreds of aspiring competitors - has everything we need and nothing that we don't; let's at least talk about the possibilities for collaboration.
Many Thanks!
I was hoping to use one of these for a camera project, since it seems to be the only small carrier board out there with the full-fat 22-pin CSI connector, but I can find neither the hardware for sale nor files to make my own. Is this still alive?
I don't ended up purchasing 4 of these products
https://www.waveshare.com/wiki/CM4-NANO-B
A few years ago for a cm4 cluster.
They were only $17 each when I purchased them.