Beta 1.8 devs are anachronistic and are a clash between different versions
BlueStaggo opened this issue · 79 comments
I have a feeling that there are noteworthy versions of Beta 1.8 from before the world generation overhaul. In the first ever image of a stronghold shown by Jeb in July 1st 2011, leaves lack ambient occlusion and biome coloring seems to be just like how it was before Beta 1.8.
There is another image Jeb posted of the first ever image of a village church (uncompresed image taken from this old French website), dated somewhere in the middle of August 2011, where leaves have ambient occlusion but beta style beaches are present, and if you look very closely, there may be a hint of beta style biome coloring:
It could just be Jeb adding villages into Beta 1.7 instead of Beta 1.8, but that doesn't explain the ambient occlusion on the leaves and the glass panes on the church, unless Jeb was adding on to a very early developer build of Beta 1.8 from before world generation was drastically changed while Notch worked on the version that had those changes (evidence from August 18th 2011 (by the way, the grass looks drier here than in the dev 2-4 recreations)). As well as this, the new world generation system shown in the river test did not have any beta style beaches, so it is likely that this first ever image of a village was also taken from a build before gen layers.
My point is that there could have been interesting developer versions of Beta 1.8 that did not have the gen layer system in place yet but had all of the new blocks (like the strongholds having stone bricks and the village church having glass panes). Unfortunately, what was in the Beta 1.8 developer versions is mostly speculation, especially the pre-PAX Prime builds, but the recreations are based a lot on speculation, so why don't we pretend that such a version exists?
New recreations progress
- dev
- dev2
- dev3
- dev4
- dev5
- dev6
- dev7
- dev8
- dev9
- dev10
- dev11
- dev12
- preview
- trailer
Mostly because the b1.8 gen code is absurdly hard to code........ I wish I could make them better
Here is the chronological order of Beta 1.8's development:
| Date (2011) | Event |
|---|---|
| May 31st | Beta 1.6.6 is released. |
| June 11th | New lighting engine and experience orbs showcased by Notch. "Oh, it's #screenshotsaturday ? Well, ok!" [1] |
| June 22nd | Ravines are shown for the first time and the lighting engine has been finalized. "Oh sh*t. Looks like I'll be doing more exploring after 1.7" [2] |
| June 30th | Beta 1.7 & Beta 1.7_01 are released. |
| July 1st | Beta 1.7.2 is released. |
| July 1st | Villages, strongholds and huge mushrooms are shown for the first time. [3] [4] |
| July 5th | Creative mode has been worked on by this point, based on the modification date of the gui image for the inventory. [5] |
| July 8th | Beta 1.7.3 is released. |
| ≤ July 19th? | World generation overhaul begins, as shown by Dinnerbone when talking about the first ever panorama. This image also contains an untextured experience bar. Somewhat equivalent to the current dev 1 recreation, but the terrain generation here looks like pure Perlin noise, although there is a deep ocean to the right of the image. This could have just been a test and not the gen layer system seen in the final release. "It turns out that was an even earlier panorama, and the one in this post came later. The first one was never released, though." [6] |
| July 19th | Hunger shown for the first time + a textured experience bar. Notch also tests extending the world height. Equivalent to the current dev 5 recreation. "Yeah, the level generator isn't exactly tweaked for 512 height." [7] |
| July 19th | Jeb mentions that he added 5 new food items. "@Andrew0085 Hehe sorry... I've added 5 new food items! =)" [8] |
| July 26th | Endermen are shown for the first time with small white eyes. [9] |
| July 26th | Notch mentions knockback in a Twitter / 𝕏 post: "Hitting a mob while rushing now sends them flying. It's satisfying, and I'm giggling a bit." [10] |
| August 2nd | Endermen are shown for a second time, alongside one of Notch's villages. [11] |
| August 12th | Jeb showcases new village churches. "Minecraft village teasing teaser" [12] |
| August 16th | Jeb showcases new food types + stackable food. Hunger and experience is visible above the hotbar. [13] |
| August 18th | Notch reveals rivers and the old extreme hills biome in "River test with forced high height contrast" (just like in the current recreations of devs 2-4). At this stage of development, snow can still generate, likely above a certain height. [14] |
| August 18th | Notch showcases a biome map with three large land biomes, rivers and oceans. [15] |
| August 26th | Beta 1.8 is showcased at PAX Prime. Equivalent to the current dev 10 recreation. |
| September 3nd | Swamplands have been added as we know them from the final release. Previously, there may have been a placeholder biome that had the same height values but different climate and no trees or tall grass. "Swamp biome, CREATE" [16] [17] |
| September 9th | Beta 1.8 Pre-release is released, with the final build released 5 days later. |
I did have a theory that two branches of Beta 1.8 were being worked on, with one testing out the new world generation. This is mostly speculation though, as after laying out this timeline, I realised that Notch may have finished work on the gen layer based world generation rather quickly, as the screenshots a week before PAX Prime look significantly different. However, hunger and experience seems to have been properly implemented in Jeb's build before the river test, yet the prototype panorama image had changed the world generation drastically but had an untextured experience bar and had no hunger. It could have just been a little bit of messing around before work on the gen layer system truly began.
In addition, I would like to mention that mobs in the dev builds of Beta 1.8 spilled out a lot of experience (10 xp to be exact) and the experience bar had the text "Skill points" on it alongside 3x the player's experience level.
Quick correction, the jeb village image is from august 12: https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/101919683153903616
I do agree with you, I think it's more probable that the biome coloring was kept the same until the river test, though there could have still been multiple branches.
Update: I went browsing around the Minecraft Wiki and discovered some more Beta 1.8 developer info. Turns out that during development, biomes were quite a bit larger! That French website helped me out again and I deduced this to be from some time around the "River test with forced high height contrast" (edit: it was on the same day!). There are only three biomes shown here, with jeuxonline assuming it is plains, forest and desert biomes based on the color. However, with the knowledge of the river test image, I believe that the orange biome could be those tall mountains due to both deserts and that image having dry grass. Like the blog said, the dark green could be forest and the bright green could be plains. There is also a bright blue biome dotted around the coast, which I assume is a shallow ocean biome, as well as a dark blue biome that must be a deep ocean biome (hence the name of the Minecraft Wiki file name: Deep Oceans overview). If anyone could find the original Twitter 𝕏 post, that would be helpful.
Source: Minecraft Wiki
https://twitter.com/notch/status/104255190806433794 Here's the original twitter...er, 𝕏 post.
It was posted on the exact same day as the river test.
@minecraft12y do you happen to know of any more 𝕏 posts around this stage of Beta 1.8's development?
I can't seem to find any other posts around this dev period (around the river test) outside of an image of new food (https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/103408168356421632) posted 2 days before the river test image. I'll look more to see if I can find anything else though.
I can't seem to find any other posts around this dev period (around the river test) outside of an image of new food (https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/103408168356421632) posted 2 days before the river test image. I'll look more to see if I can find anything else though.
Wow! Very helpful! This shows that Notch may have worked on the terrain generation at a rapid rate. The only thing I need now is when that prototype panorama screenshot was taken. That one screenshot shared by Dinnerbone is really crucial to understanding Beta 1.8's development. If we could somehow contact him directly, we could possibly figure out when this screenshot was taken and make proper sense of Beta 1.8's development.
One theory I have about this early panorama image is that it was taken from very early on in Beta 1.8's development (so early on that it was called Beta 1.7), as signified by the pistons in the hotbar, from a time before Beta 1.7 was released with only a few of the features from Beta 1.8, mainly pistons. I wish I could directly get an answer from Dinnerbone!
Here is a list of the devs that wll be recreated:
- panorama (b1.7-dev2): Prototype panorama terrain generation (this version only), untextured experience bar.
- screenshotsaturday (b1.7-dev3): Lighting engine with reddish orange block light and experience orbs.
- ohshoot (b1.7-dev4): New block light and ravines.
- notchstructures (b1.8-dev): Notch villages, surface strongholds & large mushrooms everywhere.
- gen512 (b1.8-dev2): 512 world height (this version only), hunger, new food, textured experience bar & creative mode.
- whiteender (b1.8-dev3): Endermen with white eyes.
- greenender (b1.8-dev4): Endermen with green eyes.
- codingwithnotch (b1.8-dev5): Coding with Notch.
- jebvillage (b1.8-dev6): Jeb's villages.
- rivertest (b1.8-dev7): Early gen layer system, river test, 3 land biomes + 2 water biomes, snow and roses still generate.
- paxprime (b1.8-preview): PAX Prime build.
- hatfilms (b1.8-preview2): Version seen in Hat Films' trailer.
Making the Beta 1.8 versions as accurate looks like it would take a lot of work. I am happy to help with remaking these versions if these accurate devs ever get worked on.
keep in mind that the first few b1.8 devs actually should use b1.7.2 base, also yeah i'd appreciate help especially with the structures cuz these are pain to code
Creative mode MAY have been implemented in an earlier build, as notch posted this: https://twitter.com/notch/status/84361767962161152 on june 24.
The missing letter to the link ended up being E, and so the imgur link was https://imgur.com/IKc7E, which led to a picture of a player flying with particles at their feet. Notch was also talking about different gamemodes around this time (https://twitter.com/notch/status/85802201267707904), so it's reasonable to assume creative mode had been implemented by this point, before Beta 1.7 was released.
what about the coding of notch builds
I don't know, but the Deep Ocean wasn't a thing officially until 13w36a; but I'm assuming you already know this. I want playing the game at this time. I could have been a biome we'll never truly know about, but I could be wrong.
Will you be making the massive villages from Jeb on his Sep. 27th post?
meh, idk maybe, right now im not making anything because i am on a long vacation for few months
minecraft12y commented last month
In the PAX build, the fence gate in the inventory has a flat wood texture, as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_jJJTROkJ0&t=91s.
As such, the inventory icon for the fence gate, most likely for all builds that include them, should be a flat wood texture.
It also had no name as seen in this frame
I found an official video with that really flat biome seen in the PAX Prime build: https://youtu.be/cPWyGGA0mLk
Judging by the upload date of this videos, swamps as we know them from the final release must have been added after September 2nd 2011, since this biome seems to have the same height values.
I've also found this tweet: https://twitter.com/notch/status/110053393850040320, that shows the swamps on September 3rd, so that's when they were added.
Ok, big new discovery! This Word of Notch post from July 5th 2011 states that Notch has worked on "new biome code". Could this be the GenLayer system? If so, was my theory about two separate development branches right? Or maybe the GenLayers initially copied beta biomes?
There's something that clears this up a bit, and that's a tweet from jeb: https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/88333149611892736, on the same day the blog post was made where he says notch wanted to make bigger biomes at that point.
In addition to that, I've found another tweet (this time from notch) posted a month later in which he says he's started reworking biomes...? https://twitter.com/notch/status/101212681234681858.
In that case, the "new biome code" might be the world generation code from Dinnerbone's screenshot at the time. However, Notch said that he was tweaking combat yet he mentioned knockback the month before. It's a little bit confusing.
I am very very busy this summer, if you really want you can try to recreate all b1.8 devs from scratch and if theyre good enough i might update them in the repo (and promply credit you)
🤔 I might try
In other words, I'm doing it!
I have analysed the trailer and here's what I've found for the preview build:
- Extreme hills generate without tall grass
- Villages can generate in oceans and forests
- Roses still generate
- Skill point system
- Every level grants three skill points
- Every mob drops 10 experience in individual orbs
- Creative menu has slightly different blocks
- No stone brick or sapling variants
- No jack 'o' lanterns
- No grass block
- The last part of the trailer looks to be recorded in Beta 1.7 due to leaf shading
Can I view your recreated Beta 1.8 dev repository please BlueStaggo? because I want to see what beta 1.8 looks like during development.
You must wait until the new recreations are finished
Oh okay then I guess can wait until the new recreations are finished.
Oh okay then I guess can wait until the new recreations are finished.
The builds from PAX Prime and Hatfilms are ready if you want to know
hey blue staggo is it possible to make the TMRP fork private, i dont wanna have any other TMRP forks, I will credit you once the new remakes are done and ready to be ported here
I can't change the fork to be private. That isn't necessary anyways because I'm only going to upload the new recreations once they're ready for a pull request. I'm thinking about releasing the PAX Prime and trailer builds now then I delete the fork and bring it back once the other recreations are ready.
alright, also write something in test.txt, it was a test upload file for all contributors while the recreations were private but now every contributor writes some joke into it, so you can also write something
Where are the other beta 1.8 dev recreations?
They are not done, Be patient and stop asking the same question
Alright fine I will wait a little longer.
It’s been 2 days since BlueStaggo finished the PAX Prime and Hatfilms builds of beta 1.8 so where is he now exactly?
I told you to be patient, this wont take "just a few days"
Hmm that’s odd BlueStaggo’s fork has been deleted a hour ago so why did he delete the fork exactly because it shows a 404 error.
Very odd indeed!!! Maybe its because my repo doesn't allow people to fork it because I get mad!!
In any case you must wait (very) patiently for the b1.8 devs because it takes time
Okay I’ll be waiting very patiently.
Beta 1.7 builds accuracy too
Bukkit/mc-dev@a52f7eb#diff-f061d17039658b9fe0c4fc1b937271c303f215bdfa6b498070db1f598219ae35
moved from the b1.7 issue the piston code is different and few other small things
let that issue be an overhaul for both b1.7 and b1.8 devs
Hi Nasko how’s work on the new b1.8 dev builds so far?
Hi, I don't work on them. BlueStaggo does. He is busy i think
@Nicky2024 I've seen your comments and I'll be nice enough to let you know that I have finished 6 devs (devs 1, 10, 11, 12, preview and trailer) and I have 8 left (devs 2-9).
Wait a minute! Did you just say you finished 6 dev builds of Beta 1.8 and you have 8 left to go? That’s impossible! no one has ever finished 6 dev builds of Beta 1.8 before! So this means there’s actually 14 developer builds of Beta 1.8!
Hey BlueStaggo I just created 3 .info files for the upcoming new b1.8 dev builds named b1.8-dev11,b1.8-dev12 and b1.8-trailer recreations because this is just a teaser for the new b1.8 dev builds.
It’s been 3 days since BlueStaggo last posted on GitHub I was wondering how he’s is doing now?
@Nicky2024 Sheesh, this project is not my only purpose in life.
Oh…. okay then maybe later.
GUYS!!!!!!!!
its been 9 hours since blue staggo posted. DID HE GAVE UP ON THE PROJECT????2?2?2?2?2?2?2
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!++++!!!+!
Hey wait a minute Bluestaggo didn’t actually left the project because he is part of the Minecraft recreation project who is working on the new b1.8 dev builds.
Nah man, he left the project and bought one way ticket to Brazil
no b1.8 devs now
Hey! he didn’t go to Brazil! he is on a break at the moment.
Nasko isn't lying, its very very very sad
yep... look
yeah i can confirm that too
Wait a minute BlueStaggo’s at Brazil?
yes
and he isnt coming back
he needs $1337 whole lira to come back
real
real
but outside of the bit, maybe give it a few months? rome wasn't built in a day and 14 different builds of a game cant be remade in like, a month. it'll be out eventually, and you can always tinker with the previous remakes if the waits too long!
i dont wanna be rude or anything but that dude is just annoying and pushy as fuck. back when remakes were private we used the server called recreation station as a gateway to the remakes where people build our trust. This is what happened with him:
then disappears for a week or so and
im sorry dude but in the nicest way possible shut the fuck up and grow patience
Are you able to just join the GitHub and immediately be able to join these
messages?
Can a separate chat be made. If so I’d like to help with these remakes to
stay public, so if you’d like, I’d be willing to act as a stand in for
anyone’s questions.
On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 6:14 AM Nasko @.***> wrote:i dont wanna be rude or anything but that dude is just annoying and pushy
as fuck. back when remakes were private we used the server called
recreation station as a gateway to the remakes where people build our
trust. This is what happened with him:[image: image]
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/52720373/271249074-0770fb3b-6fdb-4f09-9428-434877c8888f.pngthen disappears for a week or so and
[image: image]
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/52720373/271249376-baab22c6-f194-4476-8c5c-c1056a2e2084.png
[image: image]
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/52720373/271249453-42c878ab-05ea-4c77-933e-fa964d325744.png[image: image]
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/52720373/271249525-92c4cf79-a9f8-4913-afde-8ec2cf2ddba4.pngim sorry dude but in the nicest way possible shut the fuck up and grow
patience—
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The remakes will stay public. But whats the help youre offering?
this is not a chat. this is issue tracker. And i think we're good. We have a private discord server for the creators of the project.
you can directly chat on the github issue tracker too
oh jeez, sorry yall gotta deal with stuff like that!
Guys! BlueStaggo has just created a new GitHub Repository named Beta1.8.X which says that is a mod of beta 1.8 that constantly shifts around the entire game isn’t that so amazing right?
Guys! BlueStaggo has just created a new GitHub Repository named Beta1.8.X which says that is a mod of beta 1.8 that constantly shifts around the entire game isn’t that so amazing right?
stalker ass weirdo
The development continues (for now)
I am working on a "hybrid" Beta 1.8 remake that includes all features in one and you can choose the behavior of the entire jar file by few lines of code
Hybrid update, it will be public in a month or so, I need to polish few things. Thanks for your patience :P
Beta 1.8 dev remakes: After hybrid tests, the remakes will be compiled using the hybrid, so 3-4 months
Never mind, i lost interest working on the hybrid for few particular reasons, I moved to other project so expect be coming back to this maybe in half a year
For anyone still checking this, we moved to Discussions -> The Hybrid